Roland BK-9 Overview Video (Musikmesse 2013)

[Mike Bracchi]

At around 1700 quid at Andertons.co.uk I think it will put paid to the Yamaha S-950

Further details and more video clips: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1366

[Wally Gator]

I don't like it.

[Mike Bracchi]

I don't like it.

Wally, if I didn't know any better I would have sworn you had 'morphed' into John Duncan!

[Wally Gator]

Any word on John? No I'm still the same.

[Mike Bracchi]

Any word on John? No I'm still the same.

No not a squeak Wally ... my last email to him remains unopened

[Craig]

Yamaha has nothing to worry about. You could always go the BK-7m and midi keyboard route (one with after touch) if you fancy Roland sounds and styles, works out cheaper than the BK9.

[Fred]

Hi Craig

You are most probably right, I was rather hoping it would it would turn out to be a bit of a threat, then Yamaha might start to a bit more customer focused.

Fred

[Craig]

Quite a few good styles in there, but the Roland sounds to my ears are quite dated and at the price, after touch should be included. That goes for the Yamaha S950 too. I walked past the Roland stand

[Fred]

Hi Craig

Did you think the show was worth going to. I know it's a nice break getting away for a few days this time of the year but there did not appear to have been many things that were new there or at the earlier show at NAMM.

Fred

[Craig]

First time I've been Fred. I've been out on the road for the last 3+ weeks in Ireland, up North, Wales, down South and we played 2 shows in Germany, so I managed to get into the MusikMesse too, otherwise its something I'd never had bothered with. It's an impressive place to visit if you're into music and technology, but I was more interested in what the other companies were up to, especially the software and VST instruments.

[Eileen]

Hi Fred,
I think you will find Yamaha are very customer conscious. They always listen and when ever possible implement customer requests. They even sent a Yamaha technical guy to my recent meeting as they are interested to see how most home players use there keyboards. He was a great help to many of my members. Somehow don't think Roland would do this.
Another chap on the PSR site said he could not find a Roland stand at the recent Musikmesse.

[Craig]

One of many Roland Musikmesse videos 2013

[Mike Bracchi]

Hi Fred, Craig, Eileen

Throughout the 70's and 80's my yearly trip to Frankfurt was always an exciting event that I looked forward to ... the technology in organs of that period was improving almost daily, the late 1970's was particularly memorable for new gear, back then there was organs being manufactured in every 'nook & cranny' on the planet ... you could almost design an instrument on the back of a fag packet and there would be manufacturers clambering to get and produce them for you

But, the one thing I remember most vividly about each Musikmesse show I went to was the bitter cold in Germany at that time of the year (it was usually on in February) and; oh yes of course - the Kaiserstraße

I'm not sure I would find it so interesting in these times as all this high-tech software based music making bores the arse of me, probably because I just don't understand how to do it

Nice video Craig

All the best.

[Eileen]

Hi Mike,
In a way I have to agree. All this making up a song in bits with this add on and that add on dose not appeal at all. Are we just getting lazy in our playing. Years ago when an organist sat down to play there was a real skill there. Now days it seems you can make music without touching a keyboard.

[Craig]

If it wasn't for someone at Yamaha playing in bits to create the styles (intro, endings, variations etc) and saving what they've played as midi data, you'd never have any styles to use. Same with the other companies who create arrangers. Styles definitely have their place in music, great for a quick sit down and play and handy if doing a one man show with a singer or solo, but they definitely do make you lazy. Repeating patterns can be very restrictive and at the end of the day, all you are doing is triggering someone else's preset midi data with your left hand when playing chords.
Your right hand and left hand is playing live, but the parts playing in the style is not your playing, unless of course you have created the style for yourself.

Some people think multi tracking is cheating or not playing, but try creating a song from scratch without using any style. Play in your own bass line, drums, all the accompaniment parts, essentially creating your own accompaniment. That to me is far more rewarding than using any style, but as with any music creation, everything has its own place and it's the end result you listen to. There's lots of skill involved in multi tracking as well as turning all the accompaniment/gadgets off and just playing live. Using computer software and VST instruments, samplers and romplers, you have to learn how to use all of the software and not just learn how to use one arranger keyboard, then there's learning how to use a DAW which hosts a VST, where to place effects, mixing and mastering etc, it's far from easy.

Organs without the auto accompaniment were fantastic, I started off on those back in 1978/9. The likes of Wersi, Roland Atelier, Bohm etc cost an arm and a leg these days, so no wonder many ex organists have moved over to arranger keyboards, but with modern technology advancing all the time, sooner or later arrangers will be far more software based than they are right now, so if you don't embrace technology, you get left behind.

Regardless of what you use, how you make your music, as long as you enjoy it I think that's the main thing Personally I multi track at home creating all the parts myself, but I'll use styles if I want to relax and just play something for my own enjoyment. When I go out playing all the technology stays at home and I'll either use a style if using an arranger, or I'll also put it into full keyboard mode and play it as I would a piano. If out with a band as I was recently doing session work, I take out synths instead and play 100% live.

[Mike Bracchi]

Wotcha Craig,

What you say is absolutely true of course, I have had a go at multi-tracking and it's a lot more difficult than I imagined, and as for using DAW's - well that's completely beyond me and at 62 I really can't see myself setting out to learn all about it - I have sorta missed the boat on that score I think

It is truly amazing what can be achieved these days with a keyboard arranger and styles; me, like most amateur players rely heavily upon the use of them to make music and get a lot of enjoyment from doing so ... we do take for granted all the styles available to us and often use them with very little thought or appreciation for the guys and gals who gained the necessary skill and expertise to create them - I for one am very grateful to all those that have, as you put it, embraced technology - as without them, making music would be far more difficult if not impossible for us 'non-musicians'

Nice website you have Craig ... very cool

[Fred]

Hi

Craig - Many thanks for the Video, It's one that I had not seen before. It is looking very interesting, although for me I will have to have a try myself to see what it can do. With professional players it is always difficult to determine what is "out of the Box" and what has been specially prepared in advance.

On the road for 3 weeks, Nice. Maybe now you don't have to wait for the Lottery numbers to come up.

Eileen - Maybe I used the wrong word "Focussed" as I have nothing but praise for the Tech. Support Team. However I think Yamaha have had it too good for many years and some healthy competition is what is needed. I still think they could bring out a major software upgrade for the T4 & 3 to provide new features like Registrations in MFD, Multipad buttons that toggle On & OFF. etc. If they can do it on the Motif and Kork for the Kronos and PA3X I'm sure yamaha would find it easy to do IF they cared about existing buyers, or maybe they are only interested in new buyers.

Craig, Mike & Eileen - Multi-tracking is hard work and definitely requires a lot of effort and more to the point "Skill". I find it difficult as my timing is not very good. so I don't make the effort. Many people say modern keyboards make you lazy and are not as good as the "old" Organs. Apart from only having one set of keys & a pedal board, they are still capable of being played in the old style. So I would dis-agree the keyboards make me lazy. It's ME not the KB. I think that modern keyboards give the likes of myself a lot of encouragement to learn to play and gain a great amount of pleasure in a home setting. A little more capability on the styles (without the audio styles) would make them less monotonous.

Fred

[andyg]

Ditto to what Craig just said! Playing live is an art form. Multitracking (whether to produce a finished song or to produce a backing over which to play live) is an art form. They're both different, but equally demanding. Some like one, some like the other, many like both.

As for the Musikmesse fairs, many happy memories of working at them. Work hard, play hard (not sure about the Kaiserstrasse bit though. No, I didn't - honestly!!!). Long hours, demo-ing in three languages simultaneously, sneaking into other manufacturers' private demos to see what they had coming up (they did it to us!), freezing cold weather, soup, brotchen and wurst all day, every day. But then, an unlimited expense account at the hotel, emptying the mini-bar , late nights at the bar with our guys and girls (I could tell you a tale of one particular organ company artiste and company boss who said - after he'd had a few - "I'll pick up the tab", denting his Amex card with several hundred pounds!), having three steak meals in one evening (it was 'eat as much as you like') with three groups of colleagues (I couldn't do that now!). The huge Kawai dinners and parties. Getting invited to dinner with THE Mr Kawai, when my boss didn't.

Yes, happy days (and nights)!