Organ V keyboard

[papadeedee]

Hi everyone,

What do you prefer organ or keyboard and why ?

My personal preference is the organ. One reason is that I get a great deal of pleasure having a rhythmic interplay between my left hand and the foot pedals. Learning to play the pedals actually isn't all that difficult providing you put in the practice.

I could put a case forward for each instrument but I hope to hear the opinions of other forumites.

Brian D

[Brian007]

I prefer a Keyboard for a lot of reason,

1st/ Don`t really have the space for an organ

2nd I am an inherently lazy person and as such I can achieve a lot more for a lot less effort with a keyboard

3rd I don`t think that there`s that much that an organ can do that can not be achieve with a keyboard

4th If buying nes keyboards are a lot less expensive

5th To a degree keyboards are more transportable


Brian007

[papadeedee]

Hi Brian,
I go along with most of what you say, I play keyboard myself but I still prefer the organ.
As far as price goes, unless you are buying a new instrument, I think organs are a lot cheaper. e.g. If you look at how a Tyros holds it's value compared with a similarly priced organ, I am thinking of the Orla Ringway rs 480. You can buy the Ringway for well under £1000 but not a Tyros of a similar age.
I mention Ringway because I don't think there is another new organ in that price range.
If you go to the likes of very reliable older organs, Yamaha, Technics, Orla, Hammond, you can get cracking buys for a couple of hundred pounds.
Anyone else like to contribute ?
Brian D

[Brian007]

Hi Brian D

yes I agree with you about the prices, around here County Durham theres a lot of organs for Sale very cheaply
but as I said we dont have the room


Brian007

[papadeedee]

Hi Brian,
I'm always looking on ebay and there are some amazing buys. There is a cracking portable Orla organ on ebay right now. I'd love it but I would have to get rid of one of my organs to accommodate it apart from the fact that it would be a 12 hour round trip for me but the bargains are definately there for someone.

I still play my Yamaha keyboard. it is old and wasn't all that expensive, but the sounds are very authentic the only disadvantage is that it is not easy to instantly move from one voice to another during live play. I am going to get my Yamaha DX 11 out soon and do something on that and post it on the forum, that is, if it still works.

keyboard, organ, piano, they all have their pros and cons.
Brian D

[Westgarth]

Hi Brian D

In an ideal world it would have to be the organ!

It all comes down to space like Brian. I've had a few organs but I've never managed to fit one in comfortably. I haven't found any keyboard or external sound system (in my price range) to match what is available on organs. I've managed to midi up the keyboard and organ but it just needs even more space.

The sounds of the latest keyboards are brilliant but I would prefer a proper organ sound through a cabinet. I've tried the pedals several times but can't get the hang of them. I think you're right, you've just got to persevere.

The portability of a keyboard is becoming less of an attraction. I wouldn't like to move the tyros and the speakers around on a day to day basis!

To sum up I think it comes down to personal choice. I've tried to adjust the keyboard sounds to emulate an organ but I've never wished to do it the other way around.

[papadeedee]

Hi Steve,
Very fair comment, I too prefer the organ to the keyboard because I like organ tones, drawbar sounds, theatre organ sounds and pipe organ sounds and although some keyboards have better organ sounds than some organs do, I prefer two manuals and pedals. I know that that can also be accomplished by rigging up two keyboards and a set of pedals but that kind of set up is more or less turning the keyboards into an organ.
I used to play semi pro in bands but never learned the pedals then because I always played with a bass guitarist. I learned pedals by going through the Kenneth Baker organ books 1-7. I also found it a great help to play in my socks rather than with shoes on. It makes no difference now that my feet know where to go automatically but I still prefer not wearing shoes.

I think that organ, piano or keyboard, it doesn't matter, as long as you enjoy playing.
Thanks for taking the time to post.
Brian D

[andyg]

Organ, in a heartbeat!

I've worked with keyboards since before there were keyboards (first of my prototypes aired in 1979 - months before Yamaha's PSR-10 came out - and the boss said "No-one will want to play keyboards, stick to working with organs!") and I love what they've become. They've evolved and matured into one of the most exciting instruments on the planet....but....

Every time I sit at an organ, regardless of whether it's pipes, digital, analogue or tonewheel, I remember WHY I fell in love with the instrument 45+ years ago. I've been playing my Kawai SR6 today for the last time before it gets picked up by its new owner tomorrow (well OK, I'll probably play it again in the morning!) and last Friday I had a good old blast on a 1960-ish Hammond C3 plus Leslie that's over at Bonners. On Friday, I should have the Atelier 900 Platinum in the lounge by teatime. I know what I'll be doing all Friday evening! I'm going to have a blast on the East Sussex National Wurlitzer after 'closing time' in a couple of weeks.

I love the freedom that organ playing gives me, rubato, left hand countermelodies, MY bass lines, rather than the machines' - the list goes on.

Andy G - self confessed organ nut!

[FREDDIE]

Taking a dive into making my first post! I have a Yamaha AR80 and subsequently fancied (as you do, when you go on YouTube and see some beautiful keyboard playing!) a Tyros. So 6 weeks ago I ordered a Tyros 3 from Hamiltons, what a brilliant and awesomely friendly service, they couldn't do enough for me - and received the Tyros a couple of days later by courier. I loved the Tyros instantly and to date have achieved the impossible 2 dreams that every bloke aims for: 1. I have played it every single day, and absolutely love it, and 2. Have p*ssed the wife off considerably, because I am now unable to do the housework, due to playing the Tyros for hours on end.

The Tyros is a superb instrument, and quite honestly, I sound pretty GOOD at it and find the learning curve exciting and emotional and genuinely uplifting - it has given me a new-found love of music and if the term 'sky's the limit' is overused somewhat, I believe it's a true statement of how I feel about this keyboard.

Now, having the Tyros, I had not played the AR80 for all that time, and to be honest, I did begin to find my limited skills rather tiresome, as the AR80 doesn't instantly scream 'Hallelujah' like the Tyros does, EVERY SINGLE DAY.

But strangely, I found myself in the same room as the AR80 today (the Tyros and the AR80 occupy different rooms, in case they get up to shenanigans in the dark, and the last thing we needed was little Tyars running around). So while I was in the same room as the AR, and hiding from the dreaded housework, I decided to fire the beast up, and you know what - it's different on all levels to the Tyros, but by jove, I LOVED it again. Different techniques, different sounds, a different type of enjoyment - but enjoyment it certainly was.

My enjoyment dictated that as I enjoyed it more, so the more I pumped the volume up, and Sod's Law dictated that the wife could locate me easily and managed to drag me away to drive a broom around the kitchen.

But yes, keyboard vs organ = dead heat, in my opinion. Tyros for excitement and professional sounds, AR80 for those nostalgic drawbar sounds and slow-drawling ballads.

I did advertise the AR80 for cheap money when I got the Tyros, but nobody wants an organ any more unless it's really silly money, but after today I might just keep the old girl and dabble now and again, just for the memories.

[papadeedee]

Hi Andy,
Yes I know exactly what you are saying, about rubato, and there's syncopation etc. Even with the vast range of styles and variations available on keyboards sometimes you just can't find the perfect fit that can be accomplished by hands and feet together.
I don't want to decry Keyboards for they are great too and I have had a lot of pleasure out of playing mine over the years. There are plenty of people who have moved over from organ to keyboard and found it better suited their style of playing.
Brian D

[papadeedee]

Hi Freddie,

Fantastic that you decided to post, that is why I put the initial post up in the first place to try to get more people involved.

It is interesting to hear your point of view, I mentioned in another post that there are loads of people who love their keyboards and wont go back to the organ but I think that you have made the right choice, enjoy both instruments for what they are. The Yamaha AR 80 is still a cracking organ and still sounds amazing.
Cheers,
Brian D
p.s. Don't forget you can post on the performance page. (no pressure intended)

[VAL7JEAN]

Do love the freedom the organ gives you.
Gave up the T5 last year to go back.

[papadeedee]

Hi Val7jean,
Did you replace the T5 with an organ or did you already have the organ ? Do you still have the T5 ? I have heard nothing except praise and wonder from T5 players and I am really surprised that you gave it up. I think I would be more inclined to play a bit of both but if you are happier with the organ only then you can put all of your creative energy into playing your instrument of choice.
Regards,
Brian D

[Rev Tony Newnham]

Hi

Definite preference for organ (and/or ideally a real piano) here - but then, I learned to play before rhythm units were common & automatic accompaniments and styles were unknown! (And I learned classical organ). I do have a couple of keyboards, but they mainly get used for orchestral sounds, or the odd time when I need a small instrument to take out. As a classically trained organs, i find the tone selection methods on keyboards to be a problem -you certainly can't the main select any tone on the fly - it has to be pre-planned (and that assumes that the keyboard has registration memories - my old Casio didn't!). Also, the so-called organ sounds - especially church organ - on most keyboards leave a lot to be desired, and all too often you get just the one sound - or at most 2 or 3 which bear no real resemblence to ech other. No decent orgnist plays an entire hymn on one registration - and, aside from some Bach & the like, the same applies to much of the classical (and theatre) organ repertoire, which makes a typical keyboard far too limiting in that role - but then, like other instruments, it's horses for courses. Keyboards do some things pretty well, but mine tend to get used mainly for the orchestral solo voices, and maybe a string pad sometimes.

Every Blessing

Tony

[papadeedee]

Hi Tony,
I have had the same problem with my keyboard in as much as it is not all that easy to get from one tone to the next tone of choice but I would imagine with the likes of Tyros keyboards etc, it is a much easier task to access the tone of choice.
I love my digital piano but it doesn't have the dynamics of an acoustic piano. Sometimes I want to hit the keys harder to get more volume but nothing happens as the keyboard
only has a certain range of soft to loud. It is a Lowrey Piano and in a reasonable price range but maybe the more expensive top of the range digitals don't have that problem.
Can anyone enlighten me ?
Brian D

[Rev Tony Newnham]

Hi

I agree about the lack of dynamics on digital pianos - no matter how supposedly "good" (and I've played a fair few over the years). I own 2 currently, a Roland ep-760 which I've had for a few years. It's a 76 note job with semi-weighted keys - far from ideal, but it's what I could afford at the time. It has pretty reasonable sounds, but not having weighted keys makes the response "odd" in piano terms. The other is a Korg SP170S - a basic weighted key 88 note job. Nice sound and a pretty good response - but not like the real thing. The one drawback with it is that you can't layer sounds or split the keyboard, and if you use the small range of sounds, there's no indication of what's selected. It does what I need though for piano practice - and I canalways MIDI it one of my other instruments if I need layers.

Every Blessing

Tony

[andyg]

To be honest, most digitals with weighted keys are absolutely fine with dynamic range. A Lowrey digital piano? I'm guessing that might be an older one or maybe a budget EZP model, as Lowrey digital pianos are made by Kawai, and Kawai's action on their current digitals is one of the very best, even on their 'budget' range, like the one I use for teaching.

And it should be recognised that digital piano actions tend to 'age' , unlike their acoustic counterparts, especially with 'heavy handed' playing. Once worn out, replacement is often the only option, and only if the cost is warranted. Often it is not.

[papadeedee]

Hi Andy,
My piano is a EZP 8 with fully weighted keys and is less than three years old. The original price at Allens Music Centre was £1095. I was informed that Kawai were involved with them.
Not all that cheap really. I only want it for piano, I wouldn't recommend it for use as a virtual orchestra as the rhythyms are very limited.
Brian D

[papadeedee]

Hi again Andy,
I always play with the master volume about half way but since your post about dynamics it had me wondering and I set the volume higher and low and behold, the dynamic range is really good. I know it makes me sound a bit foolish to have never thought of that before but I guess that I thought I would have the same degree of loud to soft just at a lower overall volume level. Anyway,
I hate giving misleading information to the other members so I hope this post rectifies any misleading information I may have given.
Brian D

[Mike Bracchi]

Wotcha Brian,

I have been watching this topic develop over the last week or so and it's been interesting to read the comments posted so I thought I would add my 2 cents worth

I'm with Andy all the way on this one - given the choice it would be an organ over a keyboard everyday!

BUT .... it has been the keyboard that has given me the opportunity to develop further, not as a musician, but as a player.

If I could explain more by going back to the beginning ....

Unlike Andy and most others who were involved in the organ business during the 'halcyon' days and beyond, I wasn't a musician of any kind - I couldn't play a single note on any instrument let alone the organ ... but I had picked up quite a bit of knowledge on the Hammond B's and other traditional (electronic) organs through my time working with the MPBW in the Sovereign Base areas of Cyprus - On my return to the UK I had a chance encounter with George Blackmore in a Hi-Fi shop in Luton, we spoke in length and it came out that he worked for Boosey & Hawkes (Hammond) and it was as a result of that meeting and our subsequent conversations, mainly about Hammond organs, that he introduced me to, not one but two, leading names in the organ business - Jimmy Gibbs and Gene Ashworth.

It was late 1971 when I joined Gene Ashworth's company, Chingford Organ Studios and I was probably the first non-playing organ salesman in the country

For the next 6 or 7 years I remained in the organ business as a salesman moving on to two other major retailers namely Midland Organ Company and Swan's of Manchester - in that time I became a dab hand at knocking out those 20 second snippets of tunes needed to demonstrate such sounds as the oboe, clarinet, strings and so on. When I ventured into business with Vince in 1978, I still couldn't play the organ but my library of snippets was massive

By the late 80's I was out of the organ business for good - I got my first keyboard about 8 years ago and haven't really looked back since from a playing aspect

So, the keyboard has been good for me but it's not quite the same as owning and playing an organ - unfortunately, space is a big factor with me these days so the few treasured organs I had have all gone to pastures new - quite literally in the case of my Conn Trinidad.



Sorry for rambling on - I got there in the end

Mike

[papadeedee]

Greetings Mike,
A very interesting post. I am also an organ fan and although playing my keyboard allows me to be more elaborate with my right hand, I find that for accompaniment, the interaction between my left foot and left hand allows me to play more or less the accompaniment I want to. A case in point is my last post on the challenge board, "Pretty Flamingo." I just busked that tune off the top of my head and didn't spend any time on it but if it wasn't for the bass pedals, I think it would have been very bland but I think the variation of the simple bass patterns makes the tune a little more interesting.
Cheers,
Brian D