Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

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Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 06 Jul 2017 16:27

Hi all!

It has occurred to me that in order to contribute some music to this Forum you have to have a means of recording what you have played as MP3. Depending on which keyboard or organ you have, there may be a variety of ways of making a recording. And I want to discuss this here. The only recording method I personally am never happy with is one using microphones, as my organ is in a conservatory with a stone floor, and glass walls and roof. So the acoustics are appalling! I have to play using headphones (probably a good idea as far as the neighbours are concerned!).

You may already be able to record directly to MP3 from your keyboard or organ, and if you can do this I'm sure we would all want to know what instrument you have that enables you to do this. There are normally two basic formats when recording. One is AUDIO and the other is MIDI. AUDIO is what we want, as this is basically what we hear when listening. If you record to MIDI then you are recording a DATA file, which you can manipulate. Here is a video I have found that clearly explains the difference between these two forms of recording.

MIDI vs AUDIO: Connect And Record Your Keyboard Lesson 1



My AR Organ has a method of recording that is neither of these. It records a DATA file to a floppy disk, which can then be played back through the organ. But it is not a MIDI file. The floppy contains no music information, just instructions for the organ to play the piece. But I do find it useful recording this way, as I can play the disk back and have two hands free to make an Audio recording (either via the LINE OUT, or the HEADPHONE socket). The LINE OUT has no means of controlling the volume (it is fixed), whereas the HEADPHONE socket is controlled by the Master Volume Control of the organ.

Hugh
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby kens » 06 Jul 2017 20:44

Hi Hugh
I imagine most of us use Audacity to create MP3 or Wav. I recently did a windows update that sent my Audacity haywire. Had to uninstall and start again. Then had problems with its set up. Managed to do a system restore to pre the update before I could get Audacity working. Have now refused all updates from windows. This is Windows 7. Wonder if anybody else has hit this problem. Ken
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 06 Jul 2017 21:53

Thanks Ken for adding your experience of recording. I have a Windows 7 laptop which I updated to Windows 10. But I did cheat a little. I got the man in our local computer shop to do it for me, as I felt that if I had problems with using Windows 10 I could go straight back to him and get him to sort it. So far .. no real problems. Just this one, which I sorted out myself.

Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab.
http://www.tierce-de-picardie.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=317&t=5421

I downloaded Audacity after I had Windows 10 on my Laptop, and have had no problems with it to date. Well, not with the program itself .. just the operation of it. But I'll come to all this later.

Hugh
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 07 Jul 2017 00:30

The first recorder I used with my AR was a Tape Recorder/Mixer. Four inputs, control over volume; and tonal control over 'top', 'middle' and 'bass'. But recording to cassette tape was not good quality. So when that packed in, I bought the Yamaha MD4S MiniDisk Recorder. Same idea as above, but much better quality when recording to a MiniDisk. It was fun doing the recordings, but what we need these days, of course, is to end up with an MP3 that we can play .. rather than playing something from a tape or a minidisk.

The first 'electronic' recording device I came across was introduced to me by Peter Slack and was called an Encoder-Decoder. The whole idea of the Encoder-Decoder was to record from your organ/keyboard directly as MP3. No computer or laptop required, just the device itself with a Memory Stick or an SD Card inserted. And the recording was an MP3. This is what the device looked like:

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Now it just so happens that several Members of TDP have (and are still using) this device for doing their recordings. It was Jacko who first came across it and introduced it to Members. Mike then put up this posting in 2013 in Shooting The Breeze & General Chatter.

A Very Handy Little Gadget - Mp3 Hardware Encoder/Decoder

Do a right-click to open the topic up in a New Tab
http://www.tierce-de-picardie.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=152&t=1529

The cost of this device at that time was about £15 (although someone bought one for £3.99!). This device is still for sale, on Ebay, but the price has shot up to £58.49.

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I did use this device when I first had it, but had a problem with it. The LINE OUT of my AR is at a 'fixed volume', and there is no way of controlling the volume in the Encoder-Decoder itself. So the recording level was fixed, and couldn't be adjusted. This is the waveform I got from one of my recordings.

Image

You can see from this that the recording was overmodulated, with loads of 'clipping' going on resulting in distortion. Maybe it would be OK to put up in Box for a quick listen, but not something I would use as a serious piece of recorded music.

So I was having the same problem as Mike, when he referred to the recording of 'Isle Of Capri' that Jacko had made with his Encoder-Decoder.
Nice crystal clear recordings for sure - mine's nothing like that at the moment, it's doing a lot of clipping and distortion despite reducing the master volume levels on the output to the absolute minimum.


Hugh
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Rev Tony Newnham » 07 Jul 2017 06:26

Hi

It's far, far better to make the initial recording as a WAV file at least at CD quality (16bit 44.1kHz) - I use 24 bit 96kHz. Do any edits & tidying up, and save that version - only make an mp3 version as the last step if you need one. MP3 is a compressed data format, and in effect, throws away information that the computer decides can't be heard (Minidisc used a similar system called ATRAC). These formats are really only suitable as the final stage of the production process.

In terms of equipment, I use mainly a digital audio recorder (or a camcorder with good sound for video) and then transfer to a computer for editting. If I want to record onto the computer direct, then I will use an external soundcard (currently an older pro quality unit with balanced XLR mic. inputs). Pretty well any external (USB) soundcard will give better results than using the inbuilt audio provision in the computer.

Every Blessing

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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 08 Jul 2017 14:16

Thanks Tony. That's a good point you've made. Make the recording as a WAV file in the first instance, and SAVE it. Then make an MP3 as an extra (last) step so you still have your original quality recording available to you. You will need to make an MP3 if you want to upload it somewhere (eg. to Box) for us to listen to it.

Going back to the Encoder-Decoder I was discussing above, it is unusual to find a device that will record directly to MP3 without having to use a computer. Perhaps this is because (a) MP3 does not give a good enough recording for anyone taking recording seriously, as explained by Tony in his posting above:
MP3 is a compressed data format, and in effect, throws away information that the computer decides can't be heard

.. and (b) you have no visual input of what is going on while you are recording it, and if you want to make any adjustments to your recording either during or after the recording you would have to use a computer anyway.

I had mentioned above about a recording Jacko had made (Isle Of Capri); and one I had done using the Encoder-Decoder; and the comment Mike had made about all this. The Audacity program has the capability of showing you where on a recording any 'clipping' is taking place. This is indicated by red vertical lines.

So here is that recording I made (pictured in my posting above), showing the 'clipping':

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What a disaster! As I said, I had no means of controlling the volume from the organ's LINE OUT; nor at the INPUT stage of the Encoder-Decoder.

And here is Jacko's recording of Isle Of Capri, first as a basic waveform on the screen:

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... and secondly showing the 'clipping' (the vertical red lines):

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.. which I'm sure you will agree is pretty good, and the clipping is not that serious that you would hear it.

I reckon that whatever Mike recorded must have looked like mine!

Hugh
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Rev Tony Newnham » 09 Jul 2017 06:40

Hi

Even the 2nd clip illustrated in the previous post will probably have audible clipping - and there's really no excuse for that in a digital recording! The dynamic range (soft to loud) available on even a 16 bit recording is far greater than the difference between the background noise and a comfortable loud listening level in the domestic environment. For those used to the old style VU meter, digital is often lined up so that 0dB on the old style meter is the equivalent of -20dBFS. Digital metering is all scaled as minus so many dB - and 0dB is full scale (FS) - the top of the meter, and the point at which the digital system runs out of numbers. Anything that tries to go higher is clipped off, leaving an unpleasant, distorted waveform - unlike anaogue where things usually overloaded gracefully, and meters going into the red really weren't a big problem.

When I record for CD or mp3, the last step I make after any extraneous tops & tails etc. are editted out is to "Normalise" the recording to -1dB - a simple process in audio edit software (don't forget to save the final version!). There are good technical reasons not to normalise to 0dB - but I'll not go into that here!).

If anything, err a little on the low side when adjusting levels for digital recording.

Every Blessing

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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 28 Jul 2017 17:02

So, you have an organ/keyboard, reckon you can play a piece that you would be happy to put up for people to listen to, but are not sure how to go about it. In the early days when I had my Farfisa organ, the only way I could record it was by using microphones and recording the piece 'live'. Pretty much a disaster as the quality was terrible, and every time a lorry went past in the road, or an aeroplane went overhead, the mic would pick this up. But these days we have a LINE OUT to record from (even my old hat AR organ has one) so it is best to record from that. Or, at a pinch, you could use the headphone socket.

The objective is to record the piece you can play as MP3 (a music file ending in .mp3). You may have a keyboard that can record to either WAV (.wav .. the best quality, but a huge file .. you use this format for making CDs) or as MP3 (a smaller file as it is a 'compressed' file .. best for internet use), in which case you are laughing :lol: :lol:. Just go ahead and do that. If it's a WAV file, you can convert it to MP3.

Maybe you do have a means of recording your keyboard, but it is not in either of the formats above. It may be a MIDI file (.mid), or eg. Roland have their own format you can record to, and with the AR I can record to floppy disk, which gives me two files, a .b00 file and a .evt file that work together. In any event, if you can record something and play it back in your own instrument then do that in the first instance as (a) you know you already have a recording you are happy with, and (b) you will have two hands free to do your MP3 recording and not have to think about what you are playing.

When making an MP3 recording, you need to make sure it is recording in STEREO (ie. with a left channel and a right channel). Your LINE OUT will have a left and a right channel (red is the right channel, and white the left).

The next step is to get the audio signal you are listening to from your keyboard to the place where you are going to make the MP3 recording .. either to your computer, or (as in my case) to your Laptop. My computer has a STEREO LINE IN (a 3.5mm jack socket) .. but I can't get my computer anywhere near my organ, so have to use my Laptop. But my Laptop does not have a STEREO LINE IN .. it only has a MIC IN .. and that is in MONO.

The destination of your audio has to be an 'audio recording program'. There are several you could use, but I will only mention AUDACITY, as it is the one I use, and it's FREE to download, and FREE to use. You can get AUDACITY onto your computer/laptop by downloading it from this LINK. The latest version is Audacity 2.1.3 (There is a later version available now, Audacity 2.2.1 - Hugh)

http://www.audacityteam.org/

To get the audio into this program on eg. your laptop, you will need a lead of some sort from your keyboard. My organ's LINE OUT is of the RCA (or PHONO) variety. To quote from Wikipedia:
An RCA connector, sometimes called a Phono connector or Cinch connector, is a type of electrical connector commonly used to carry audio and video signals. The connectors are also sometimes casually referred to as A/V jacks. The name "RCA" derives from the Radio Corporation of America, which introduced the design by the early 1940s.

So the plugs at one end of my lead look like this (stereo audio are the red and white ones .. the yellow one in this picture is for video):

Image

Although I could have tried recording straight into my computer (which had a 3.5mm jack socket for stereo input) via a 3.5mm jack plug on the other end of my Phono lead .. is it a good idea even to attempt this? I don't want to 'blow' anything! .. , it is easier to use my Laptop. And here was the problem. No STEREO input on my Laptop. So I needed to find a device that would give me a USB stereo input to my laptop.

At a first glance, this seemed an easy thing to do. I bought a NewLink Audio Adaptor.

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Product description was as follows:
Two 3.5mm sockets for Stereo Output (the green one), Stereo Mic Input (the yellow one); Volume Control Keys; Mic and Speaker Mute Button; LED Indicators; no external power required; Plug and Play compatible; no drivers required.

Stereo Mic Input; Stereo Output. Nothing of the sort! What I got was both channels 'mixed together' and the same waveform on both left and right channels. I have recorded a DEMO so you can hear what STEREO should sound like. In this piece, I have deliberately put sounds 'to the left' and 'to the right' to make it easier to hear what is going on.

STEREO Demo as it should sound

And this one, what I got using the NewLink Audio Adaptor (listen to it carefully):

STEREO Demo recorded using the USB Audio Adaptor

You can hear what has happened. This is called '2-Channel MONO' and is not 'true stereo' at all. This is NOT what we want to end up listening to!
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 28 Jul 2017 17:15

Time I think to take a break and watch a video about recording and Audio Interfaces.

Audio Interfaces



In the clip, from 3:38 to 3:42 various Audio Interfaces are shown. There is one in red, bottom left. The Behringer UCA 222. Behringer is a well known company who make Audio Equipment for the music profession. They are a German Company. To do my recordings I have bought the Behringer 202 (the silver/black one). I don't think there is any difference between the 222 and the 202 apart from the colour. Neither of them come with 'bundled software' any more.

The Behringer UCA202

[url]Image[/url]

I bought mine from Gear 4 Music for £24 + postage:

http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/79E

.. and it's also available from Amazon, also £24:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA202-U-Control-low-latency-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI

Hugh
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Re: Recording one's keyboard/organ - Overview

Postby Hugh-AR » 29 Jul 2017 20:53

The reason why I needed an Audio Interface was so that I could feed two-channel stereo from my organ into my Laptop via a USB port. The Audio Interface she was showing us in the video clip above had just about everything one could possibly want for two channel input .. LINE IN or microphone inputs. Dynamic microphones (which just plug in), or condenser microphones which need 'Phantom Power' to operate them, a +48 DC voltage. But I have no intention of using microphones. I shall just be using the two stereo channels from my organ/keyboard and reckoned the Behringer UCA202 would be sufficient for what I wanted to do. But I was aware that there is no means of controlling the volume through the UCA202 .. only the volume to the headphones so you can monitor what you are recording. Hopefully not a problem as I do have volume adjustment in Audacity.

So now I am all set up to do a recording. I have an Audio Interface. I have a cable with PHONO plugs at each end, one end to plug into the LINE OUT of my AR, and the other end to plug into the LINE IN of the UCA202. I also have another cable with a 3.5mm jack plug on one end so I can also record from a headphone socket. I shan't be using the Phono LINE OUT of the UCA202 as the LINE OUT I am using is the UCA's USB lead which I plug into the USB Port of my Laptop. It's this lead that provides the power to run the device too. So this lead serves two purposes. Providing power to the device, and giving the 2-channel stereo signal for Audacity to record from.

For details of how I have used Audacity to record my AR via the UCA202 Audio Interface, click this LINK:

Do a right-click to open the topic up in a New Tab
http://www.tierce-de-picardie.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=200&t=6076
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