Voice Combinations

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What voice combinations do you choose when playing your keyboard?
Please tell us!

Voice Combinations

Postby Brian007 » 30 Dec 2018 14:05

Hi ALL,

Here`s a link to some info on combining voices for your performances or recordings,

Right click and select open in new tab

Voice Combinations (PDF)

Hope its of some use.

If you want to print this out, hover the mouse top right of screen and a PRINT symbol will appear.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 31 Dec 2018 00:16

That's very useful
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Brian007 » 31 Dec 2018 08:50

Hi James,

Yes I thought so , as I often struggle to come up with a voice or voices for my tunes ?

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 31 Dec 2018 11:14

I wonder what voice / sound combinations members here have created that work well together ?
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 31 Dec 2018 14:07

Sounds that work well with piano sounds ?
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 31 Dec 2018 16:58

Getting back to basics, there are two ways you can get 'two voices' set up. The first is by 'splitting' the keyboard.

Split: Use this feature if you want to split the keyboard so that you can play one instrument on one side of the split and another instrument on another side of the split.

Here's an example of this:



You wouldn't do this if you were using the left of the split to play chords with a style. You would then choose two 'voices' to play together on the right of the split.
Next ...

Dual: Means you can play two voices/instruments at the same time.

James was asking what sounds would work well with piano.

For starters, when you have two voices sounding together you wouldn't want the volumes of your two instruments to be the same. They should be set up to complement each other. Another consideration would be the 'reverb' / 'sustain' you have set up for each instrument. And finally you should Pan the instruments so they are not both coming from 'centre stage'.

As the piano is a 'percussive' instrument, when you play a note it will fade away even when you are holding the note down. So it would seem to me that for best effect your second voice played with the piano should be one that continues to sound when you hold the note down. In these examples there is an 'organ' voice accompanying the piano, set far quieter than the piano, and panned to the right. I just love the sound of these two instruments together. Played on an AR 80 organ.

Click these LINKS below to listen.

Do a right-click to open up the MP3 files in a New Tab

Piano and Organ played together No:1 (MP3)

Piano and Organ played together No:2 (MP3)

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby VAL7JEAN » 31 Dec 2018 17:30

'Voice Combinations' are very orchestral based.
Perhaps something for playing a keyboard in a popular mode?
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 31 Dec 2018 19:23

On the Pa700 you can split your keyboard for styles as per other arrangers. You can also setup different split points for the 3 upper sounds.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Brian007 » 31 Dec 2018 20:06

Hi ALL,

Personally I think its down to the type of music your playing as to what voices you use and what atmosphere your trying to create,
so while there are voices that work together well and some that do not its down to the music your playing

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 31 Dec 2018 22:35

It's good to keep music interesting.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 01 Jan 2019 00:29

James,

I take your point about the keyboard 'split' point. The Yamaha PSR-E423 in the example above is quite an old keyboard! To be able to set different split points on your Korg for your three upper sounds could be very useful. I can't do that with my Yamaha AR 80 organ. But what I find with all these things, it's one thing discovering what you can do, and another to think of ways to make use of these features.

Going back to what sounds good with a piano, here is a clip of piano and strings together, strings being another 'voice' that would continue sounding when you held the key down. If I was setting up a Registration to play this I would have the volume of the piano and strings the same (as in the clip); piano coming from centre stage; and two different strings, one panned to the left, and one panned to the right.



But to play a piece like this you would have to 'layer' the three voices you had chosen as each would have a different melody line. Getting complicated now. Too much for me!

As both previous posters have said, its down to the type of music you're playing as to what voices you use, and it's good to keep the music interesting.

Val .. had you something in mind for playing a keyboard in a popular mode?

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 01 Jan 2019 01:16

Another response I had

My trick to layering strings with piano 
- increase the release of the strings
- make damper pedal only work for the piano part.

But I dont think Kurt wants to hear the obvious combinations..

Piano works good with several instruments..
Try with some percussion for example
Or a churchorgan with choirs..
Or brass and strings... and set brass for only high velocity range..
And layering the low end of a piano with a bass sound, requires some work as you want the volume of the bass to slowly degrade to zero from C3 to C4...
And how about layering the low end of a Steinway with the high end of a Yamaha grand, same way as with the bass.. from C3 to C5 the Steinway volume slowly falls, as the Yamaha volume comes in..

But thats still the usual

Piano and panflute is also nice..
And my secret tip, bagpipes and percussion with lots of wide cathedral reverb..
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 01 Jan 2019 01:19

Here are some of my favourites I use on my Genos and Ketron but would probably work with most keyboard setups , Piano and strings, saxes and brass, saxes and clarinet. Vibes and jazz guitar, organ and brass , strings and Glockenspiel, theatre organ and glockenspiel. For classical.....bassoon and piccolo, oboe and strings, strings and horns. Dx electric piano and synth pads, Dx electric piano and strings, Shadows type electric guitar and synth pad Musette accordion and glockenspiel.....I find they will work for a wide variety of m usic.Hope this helps.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 01 Jan 2019 02:22

James,

Have you got some examples of the above? Not necessarily whole songs, but DEMOS so we can hear what these sound like. If you can do some MP3 DEMOS, send them to me by email attachment (to hugh@ar-group.org ) and I will upload them. Or some examples of voice combinations done by your Members. They don't have to be TDP Members to get their music put up here as a DEMO MP3 track as this is a 'discussion' topic. Complete recorded songs illustrating these points would also be great to listen to.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 01 Jan 2019 13:16

When panning the sounds to give the impression of space how much do you use to separate?
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 01 Jan 2019 13:18

I will try to create some demos on my Korg although they may need tweaking for better effect.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 01 Jan 2019 16:40

Thanks James. I have often said that the advantage of having a FORUM rather than a MAGAZINE is that as our hobby is about MUSIC, it involves listening to things as well as reading about things. And you can do that with a FORUM.

PAN ...

On my Yamaha AR it won't let you pan 100% to the right or left so you always have some of the sound on one side or the other. I usually do the pan as far as it will go either one side or the other.

When they pan professional recordings 100% to the left or to the right it drives me scatty. This is what they used to do in the early days of stereo, the idea being that you had sound coming exclusively from the left or right, as if the instrument being played was physically to the left or to the right on the stage. This is OK with speakers as both ears would hear the sound and you would be able to determine from the volume of the sound whether it was to the left or to the right. But what about if you are wearing headphones? You would get full volume in one ear, and no sound at all in the other! This is what drives me scatty! So if your keyboard does allow you to do a 100% pan, don't go as far as that so people with headphones can comfortably listen to your music.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 01 Jan 2019 18:51

Yes magazines are great until you reach a problem. It might be something really simple but to you its another bit of a jigsaw.

It's also good to have an idea of which sounds to mix in your pallete to get the sound you want. At the same time to think out the box and keep things sounding fresh.

I'm always listening to music, when I play I try to put myself in the situation where the music would have originally been played.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Brian007 » 01 Jan 2019 19:01

Hi James,

I totally agree with you about listening to music for inspiration and Ideas, as it is a great way to keep
abreast of how other people that are probably more experienced in the music business than us are up to

All the best Bran007
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 02 Jan 2019 12:02

James,

Of course one doesn't have to use completely different voice groups when setting up a Registration. Here is one I have set up using just STRINGS (although one verse is with Piano Accordion).

First, a bit of explanation. I have a variety of 'string sounds' to choose from, and have selected three from my list. Two of them are 'polyphonic' (ie. you can play multiple notes with them) and one is 'monophonic' (ie. it will only play one note). This last one is called the LEAD voice. I have also used Melody On Chord (M.O.C.) which adds multiple notes to a melody played with single notes. The notes it picks up and adds into the melody are the ones you are using to form the chord in your left hand. M.O.C. does not act on the LEAD voice, so when playing a single note melody line you just get that one note sounding, which emphasises the melody. The other voices selected play harmony notes based on those notes you are playing in the chord with the left hand. I have chosen M.O.C. MODE 1.

Here is the STRINGS set-up:

Upper Voice 1 - 4' Orchestral Strings, panned to the left.
Upper Voice 2 - 4' Classical Strings, panned to the right.
... so when playing single notes, these two are playing in 'harmony', picking up extra notes from the chord played with the left hand.

LEAD Voice - 16' Chamber Strings, panned to the centre.
So this is what you hear predominantly as the melody, as (a) it is at a different footage to the other two, and (b) it is playing monophonic (single) notes.

The PIANO ACCORDION verse I have set up as follows:

LEAD Voice - 16' Accordion panned to the right.
Upper Voice 1 - 8' Musette panned to the left.

Again, even though I am playing the melody with just single notes, as I am using M.O.C. on MODE 1, the 16' Accordion is just playing the tune (which you can hear to the right), whereas the 8' Musette is playing with multiple notes (panned to the left).

Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab
DEMO played with full STRINGS set up as above

I have deliberately jumped up an octave in the middle of this piece to get a contrast with those strings.

I did say that it's one thing to discover things your keyboard can do, and another to think of ways to make use of these features.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 02 Jan 2019 12:03

Sounds That Work Well With Electric Piano Sounds ?
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 02 Jan 2019 18:28

So following the discussion about using a Piano and Organ going well together I created a couple of registrations and recorded a couple of demos.

The first is Danny Boy this uses an acoustic piano sound and jazz organ, with a choir sound. I changed the velocity setting of the Chior sound so it only comes in when you press the keys harder. I panned the sounds and added some reverb.

Click the orange marker on the Soundcloud LINK below to ‘Play’.

https://soundcloud.com/nativeangels/danny-boy


The Second is a recording of World In Union

This time I used an acoustic piano but replaced the Jazz organ with a pipe organ and changed to reverb to a hall setting.

Click the orange marker on the Soundcloud LINK below to ‘Play’.

https://soundcloud.com/nativeangels/world-in-union


Let me know what you think
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Brian007 » 02 Jan 2019 18:53

Hi James,

Two good examples of what works together well, my own personal preference is the second piece best, not saying there is anything wrong with the first one, but I simply like the sound of the second one much better,

Thanks for sharing your performances with us

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 02 Jan 2019 20:02

It wasn't so much the performance more the sound combinations.

Both Piano and Organ as Hugh suggested, but differant organs.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 02 Jan 2019 23:51

James,

Thanks for posting your Registrations for us to listen to. Having a continuous sound played together with a 'percussive' sound definitely adds a 'fullness' to what you are playing. Like Brian, I felt that the second one came out particularly well.

You had asked what to put with Electric Piano. Well, here again you are using a 'percussive' instrument to play the melody (an Electric Piano), so anything that makes a continuous sound whilst holding down the note would be good. In these DEMOS, by John Taylor (JohnT), he uses STRINGS as his accompanying sound. Of course to get it to sound right one has to play the piece 'smoothly' and hold the notes down so the strings come to the fore. Either that, or put a lot of reverb/sustain on the strings so they continue to sound after you take your hand off the keys. But not too much or the string sounds will all run into each other and end up sounding messy.

Do a right-click on the LINKS below to open them up in a New Tab

Any Dream Will Do: DEMO of Electric Piano with STRINGS by JohnT

Love Me Tender: DEMO of Piano with STRINGS by JohnT

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 03 Jan 2019 16:39

Still using a Piano sound but this time I added different Theatre Organ Sounds to what the Pa700 has.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 04 Jan 2019 00:03

Hi James,

That's a pretty 'full' organ sound you have created there. The melody (with the piano sound) is coming very strongly from the left, with the Theatre Organ filling in with the harmonies on the right. This makes for a great sound to listen to and it's the separation between the two sounds that creates that 'fullness'. You must be very pleased with that.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 04 Jan 2019 12:58

What sounds work well with guitar sounds ?
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 05 Jan 2019 16:33

James,

Can you answer a question for me please. With your Korg PA700 you say you can allocate up to 3 voices to the right of the split. How many voices can you allocate to the left of the split? Another three? These would then 'sound' the notes of any chord you are holding down to activate the STYLE you are using.

On my AR 80 organ I can allocate up to three voices to the left of the split, two taken from the voice bank, and the third comes from the organ drawbars.

The Registration I have used in the DEMO below has organ drawbars with 'tremolo' to the left of the split (so they sound continuously as I hold down the chord for the Style) and then one voice (60s Guitar) on the Upper Manual, and one voice (Pop Brass) on the Lower Manual (to the right of the split). Having two different voices on two different manuals means I can play with the Guitar on the Upper and immediately jump down to the Pop Brass on the Lower .. and back again. And can even play notes on the Upper and Lower together so long as I can reach them with one hand.

Do a right-click on the below to open it up in a New Tab
DEMO using organ drawbars with tremolo, 60s Guitar and Pop Brass

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby NativeAngels » 05 Jan 2019 22:22

One sound on the lower unless you turn the accompaniment off then you can set the splits across the whole of the keyboard.
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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 06 Jan 2019 00:50

Brian started this topic off by giving us some ideas for Voice Combinations. I have been sounding Brian out about some of these, and what he has said is very true. He says:
There is no real definitive list and its down to the piece of music you're playing as to what voices you feel are right for it .. and most keyboards do have registrations of instruments that come with the style you're using which is a good starting point.

To be honest, to me, half the fun of playing a song is the setting up of the Registrations for it. I usually have in my head an idea of how I want it to sound, and I can spend a long time trying to get it to sound as I want it to. In fact, there are some songs I would like to play and just can't get the sound I want to hear. So I'll give up, and try again some months (or even years!) later.

Here's one that has taken me at least five years to put together as I want to hear it. The Great Pretender, as sung by Freddie Mercury. Not just the Voice I have used, but the 'counter melody'; and the backing PARTS, four of which I have created myself, one being a 'repeating piano'.

Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab
https://app.box.com/s/ns1c2tmxa85eon6m0jrnsv3apibdz6gr

And of course listening to voice combinations that others have done can inspire me to have a go at something. Margaret Draper has just put up Somewhere My Love in the Performance Board, and listening to that there is one voice combination that I just love the sound of. Margaret has got CHOIR with the melody panned to the right, and CHOIR as backing panned to the left. This then goes to TRUMPET panned to the right and that same CHOIR panned to the left. So shall try that.

Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab
Extract from Somewhere My Love played by Margaret Draper

Then there's another voice combination I really love, and this time the piece is by Peter Slack on his Korg PA4. Mind you, it's the way he plays this piece too, not just the Registration he is using.



Music is a very personal thing and I'm sure Brian would go for something a bit more lively as he is a real fan of 60s/70s Pop/Rock music. So each to his own, I reckon, and just go for Voice Combinations that make you feel really at home with what you want to play.

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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 06 Jan 2019 11:24

I was talking earlier about 'Pan' (putting sounds to left/right of stage). Heard this in the car yesterday (from speakers) and thought the overall recording sounded brilliant!

So here is an example of 'perfect' Stereo separation (Pan) for listening with headphones.



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Re: Voice Combinations

Postby Hugh-AR » 27 Jan 2019 15:58

Obviously discussing 'Voice Combinations' is a topic that could go on for ever. But I think I prefer voice set-ups that are easy to listen to ie. are not too complicated in their structure. So I personally am not keen on 'big band' backings like the ones Frank Sinatra has with his music.

This is what I am on about. This is played by Swallow (Noel) on his Yamaha PSR S900 .. For All We Know. He starts off with Piano, and a gorgeous chord harmony in the background (Choir Ooh?) Love that sound!. Then in the next part he has Piano and Strings playing together .. which we have talked about earlier.

https://app.box.com/s/d5gx5s1457kvou1bgbyq

And here's another one where he has Piano and Strings playing together.

We're All Alone

https://app.box.com/s/qd2kfvhukyr4q3cnc8xh

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