Bagpipes

Image
Anything special about the way you play? Please post in here.

Bagpipes

Postby lesh » 24 Mar 2019 14:09

Hi,

Can anyone help, I’m trying to play a song using only a Bagpipe voice and looking for any playing tips. Having listened to someone playing a bagpipe there seem to be a lot of “trill” notes? I think that’s what the playing technique is called.

Anyway, thought it could be an interesting topic for people to help with.

Regards

Les
Keyboard: Tyros 5
Image
lesh
Active Poster
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 02 Mar 2014 12:07
Location: Newbridge, Gwent

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 24 Mar 2019 14:58

Les,

    Image

The bagpipes consist of an air supply, a Bag, a Chanter and a Drone (sometimes more than one). The Chanter is the melody pipe, and the Drone just 'drones' on and on.

The piper emits a continuous, even sound throughout his rendition. There are no pauses, or rests at all. So don’t allow your fingers to ever be idle. Rather run one note into another. You must get your bass to emulate the sound of the drone .. literally droning on by constantly sounding the same note. Your fingers, however, should never take a breather. On a bagpipe you can't make the same note sound twice, so have to 'skip' elsewhere and come back to the note to hear it sound again. For this reason you have to do something to distinguish between two identical consecutive notes, and I think this is what you were referring to when you said you heard lots of 'trills'.

Here is some music showing how the piper plays those extra 'skipping' notes ('grace notes'). I have noticed that in this music there are 'grace notes' between every note of the melody, not just where two notes follow on that are the same. Presumably this is what is meant by "Your fingers, however, should never take a breather."

Image

Here is a YouTube video of a Piper playing.



Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 24 Mar 2019 15:05

When we have the professionals come and play at our organ club, whenever they mention they are going to play 'bagpipes' a groan goes across the room. Can't think why, as I rather like the sound from bagpipes. Creates a 'mood' of Scotland .. Highland Games, and Scottish Country Dancing.

    Image

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby andyg » 24 Mar 2019 15:19

Les,

You don't mention what instrument you have, so here are my 'standing orders' for higher end Yamaha keyboards.

In Left Voice , use Bagpipes, set Octave to +1. In Mixing Console, add some more reverb than default and then add some chorus, around 40 -50 should do.
Set the L+Style split point to Bb2
Play the two A notes in the left section, an octave apart. You can use Left Hold to create the drone without having to hold the notes down!

In R1, use Bagpipes, adding some chorus and reverb again. You'll probably have some more pipe sounds. If so, then whack these into R2 and R3. More chorus again and reverb, and while you're in Mixing Console, pan R2 to 9 o'clock, R3 to 3 o'clock, leaving R1 and Left in the centre. Set the Tune value for R2 and R3 to +3 and -3 respectively. Use the Balance controls sensitively until you get the right balance between drone and melody.
Save this to a Registration Memory!

Play all your bagpipe tunes in D major, against the droning left hand As. You'll have to play it with the lowest possible note being the A above Middle C, regardless of what octave the music says. If you're a stickler for accuracy, set the Pitch Bend value for the Left voice to 3 or 4. Just before you play the As with your left hand, use your right hand to pull down the pitch bend wheel. As you play the As, gently release the wheel so the pitch rises like a real set of pipes does when you 'turn on the ignition'!

The quick notes you mention are called 'grace notes'. They'll be the A below the melody line. If you play Amazing Grace in D major, your melody will start A D D. You insert a very quick grace note A in between the two Ds. You can be indulgent when adding the grace notes!

These techniques can work well on organ too. Here's my Roland AT900P doing bagpipes at the start of Auld Lang Syne.

Click this LINK to play it. Or you can download it to your computer by right-clicking on the LINK and choosing Save Link As...

Click the back-arrow after listening to get back to this page.
Auld Lang Syne excerpt (MP3) played on Roland AT900P


It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

Image .. Image
Visit My Website: http://www.andrew-gilbert.com/
User avatar
andyg
Super Poster
 
Posts: 298
Joined: 02 Sep 2012 20:18
Location: Newhaven, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 24 Mar 2019 17:14

Hi Andy,

What a novel idea .. to use the Pitch Bend to 'wind up the bagpipes' at the start. Would never have thought of doing that! But you're right, it makes the bagpipes sound like the real thing.

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby lesh » 24 Mar 2019 21:11

Hi Hugh and Andy,

What a lot of information, thank you both for you replies, mind blowing stuff.

Sorry Andy must remember to add my Tyros 5 Keyboard to my profile so people will know in the future.

The reason for my enquiry, well I must have forgotten that when I purchased the Tyros I bought the Celtic Pack and have never used it, then found myself watching pipers playing Amazing Grace on you tube, lovely song. I then tried playing it on the keyboard and, well not good, didn’t like the playing range so tried the transpose button to move the range but still not happy. Think my song is In the key of F and I transposed it up to C but it still didn’t sound right perhaps I try in D major as you stated Andy.

Andy, I have saved all your instructions on my iPad and after the Monday/Tuesday Grandchildren babysitting duties I will be sitting down with the keyboard and follow your instructions and hopefully save to a registration bank, didn’t even think about the bagpipe Drone, thank you once again.

The Celtic pack voice is Hiland piper which is a solo piper R1, would I need to use the Harmony Echo if I wanted to try and produce more than one piper playing together, eg add the same voice to R2 and R3? Or is that not an option.

Also thank you Hugh for all your information, all read and absorbed in the memory box and understand the play technique shown in the Auld Lang Syne music.

I hope others find this topic as interesting as I have and thank you both.

Les
Keyboard: Tyros 5
Image
lesh
Active Poster
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 02 Mar 2014 12:07
Location: Newbridge, Gwent

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 25 Mar 2019 10:56

Les,

Whether or not you play a piece with bagpipes depends on whether you are one of those who 'groan' when bagpipes are mentioned. I have had a go at playing 'bagpipes' for Mull of Kintyre on my AR organ, but I am a 'harmony' person and had multiple drones ( :? :? ) so I could choose a bass in harmony with what I was playing. And I didn't take into consideration that with a bagpipe you can't play two notes the same on the trot and have to put in 'grace notes' (I didn't know about this at the time). So not an authentic sounding 'bagpipe'! I followed that with The Road and the Miles to Dundee played on Piano Accordion, another Scottish instrument which is used extensively for Scottish Country Dancing.

Click this LINK to listen. You may have to hover over the loudspeaker icon to turn the volume down a bit.

Click the 'back arrow' after listening to get back to this page.
Mull of Kintyre played with a 'bagpipe' & The Road and the Miles to Dundee played with Piano Accordion (MP3)

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 25 Mar 2019 15:11

Andy,

I have just listened to your short DEMO on your Roland AT900P .. and realised that you too haven't put in any 'grace notes' between notes that are the same and which follow on one after the other. And there are quite a few in Auld Lang Syne. It must be difficult when it is so easy for us playing on a keyboard to actually play two notes that are the same in succession. If you were actually playing a bagpipe you wouldn't have any problem at all as you just couldn't play the note again, and would have to 'skip' somewhere and back to get the same note to re-sound.

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby lesh » 26 Mar 2019 19:43

Hi Hugh,

Well my Grandchildren duties are over for this week and now armed with all this info will spend a few hours experimenting.

Will probably start and try Andy’s setup then try and use it with the song Amazing Grace, will let you know how I get on.

Many thanks

Les
Keyboard: Tyros 5
Image
lesh
Active Poster
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 02 Mar 2014 12:07
Location: Newbridge, Gwent

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 26 Mar 2019 23:23

Les,

We would love to know how you get on. If you do manage to play Amazing Grace with a 'drone' and some 'grace notes' in the appropriate places we would love to hear your effort (doesn't have to be the whole thing .. just a DEMO to show the sound you get, and some of your 'grace notes' will be enough). Post it as a 'Reply' in this topic rather than in Members' Performances. Either as a Share LINK to Box; or just send the MP3 to me as an email attachment to hugh@ar-group.org and I'll do a LINK that will play directly without going through Box (like some of the other Musical DEMOS I put up from time to time). Putting a DEMO (or the complete song) in this topic will sort of 'round off' what we have been discussing. I plan on having another go at Mull of Kintyre and putting some 'grace notes' into the melody on the Chanter now that I know about how this should be done.

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 27 Mar 2019 23:00

Here's a DEMO sent by Charles Hughes (ChuckH) of him playing bagpipes on his AR 80 organ. He's got all the 'grace notes' there in his recording.

Click the below to listen, then click the back arrow after to get back to this page.
Bagpipes DEMO by Charles Hughes on his AR 80 organ

A short interlude now. Take your partners for some Scottish Country Dancing. Piano Accordion, & Piano .. no Bagpipes.

The Mason's Apron / Scotland The Brave / Cock o' the North
Click the below to listen, then click the back arrow after to get back to this page.
Scottish Medley played by Hugh Wallington on AR 80

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby lesh » 28 Mar 2019 10:04

Yes, you can hear all the grace note in the Charles version which is something to aim for but as far as The Mason’s Apron played by Hugh, well I don’t have enough fingers for that one.

Anyway will keep practicing and setting up before posting anything.

Les
Keyboard: Tyros 5
Image
lesh
Active Poster
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 02 Mar 2014 12:07
Location: Newbridge, Gwent

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 01 Apr 2019 15:12

Hi Les,

I have had another go at playing those bagpipes, making sure I put in those 'grace notes' whenever there are two notes on the trot that are the same. And for good measure, as this is what bagpipes seem to do, I have skipped about and added a few more notes here and there.

Mull Of Kintyre / The Road and The Miles To Dundee
Click the below to listen, then click the back arrow after to get back to this page.
The above played with a more 'authentic' bagpipe?

It's also worth mentioning the key change. The first tune I played in G. The second tune I play in F .. but how to get from G to F? G to F also gives the musical effect of 'falling'. It's better to have the music 'rising', so I have inserted the chords Bb and C7 between the two keys. This seems to have the desired effect of the music 'rising'.

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby lesh » 01 Apr 2019 18:17

Hi Hugh,

Sorry to admit this but I have done nothing towards my bagpipe project yet, why, well the weather has been dry and sunny so the Boss (her indoors) decided we were putting the touring caravan on the back of the car and went away until Yesterday.
Who am I to disapprove so we ended up in Glastonbury for a few days and apart from a few misty mornings it was an excellent time away.

Back now so a few projects on the Keyboard this week including following the instructions from Andy on Bagpipes and old time dance music, busy week.

Just listened to your performance ( well Done ) and your way ahead of myself so a lot of catching up to do, those Grace notes are the key to it all I think and I have spent some time listening to Amazing Grace trying to mark my music with the Grace notes.

Will post when I have something, so until then.

Best regards

Les

PS. Do you have a “Topic" section on the forum for those wishing to share Holiday experiences?
Keyboard: Tyros 5
Image
lesh
Active Poster
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 02 Mar 2014 12:07
Location: Newbridge, Gwent

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 01 Apr 2019 23:08

Les,

We hadn't .. but just for you (and others who may wish to post something), we have now! It's in the Category Community Notice Board. I have started the ball rolling with our train trip to Mallaig in 2016.

Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab.
http://www.tierce-de-picardie.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=416

Click on NEWTOPIC and post as you normally would. If your post contains pictures, make sure they are not larger than 700 pixels wide. If in doubt, send the pictures to me by email attachment (hugh@ar-group.org) and I will resize them for you and send you a LINK for where they are stored so you can display them in your post.

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 02 Apr 2019 00:07

A bit more on the bagpipes, from Wikipedia:
In bagpipe music there is extensive use of grace notes. Indeed, because the chanter is not tongued but supplied by a continuous air source from the bag, grace notes are sometimes the only way to differentiate between notes. For example, inserting a grace note between two crotchets (quarter notes) played at the same pitch is the only way to indicate them as opposed to them sounding like a single minim (half note). Various multiple grace note ornaments are formalised into distinct types, such as doublings, throws, and birls. A single grace note is played on the beat as is the first grace note of a complex ornament such as a doubling. The ornament taorluath is an exception: its last grace note is played on the beat. Gracenotes are typically played as short as possible by lifting the fingers quickly and a short distance off the chanter.

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Ron » 22 Apr 2019 07:39

Another of my childhood achievents was to learn to play the bagpipes which takes a fair bit of puff. Playing grace notes is an integral part of a good performance. Listening to a well played jig is a revelation in the use of grace notes. Taorluath, lemluath and pinkie birl all take me back to my early years.

Good luck to all those trying to emulate the sound of the highland bagpipes on a keyboard.

Regards,

Ron
Twin setup: Tyros 3 and Yamaha Piaggero NP-11
Fretless Bass, Fender Bass amp: BXR300C, Trace Elliot Commando 100W

Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2019 May (Joint Winner)
2022 September (Joint Winner)
User avatar
Ron
Regular Member
 
Posts: 688
Joined: 01 Jan 2013 16:11
Location: East Lothian, Scotland, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby lesh » 23 Apr 2019 21:16

Hi Ron,

I have found this whole topic extremely interesting and finding it very difficult to reproduce anything acceptable on my keyboard. I have Amazing Grace which I have transposed into the key of “D” as Andy has suggested in the above post and in the process of marking where the Grace notes would be but as far as playing and sounding like Bagpipes, well that is another story.

I have a few projects on the go at the moment Amazing Grace being one of them and I will continue to hopefully progress to something worth posting to the forum.

Many thanks for your posting it was very interesting.

Regards

Les
Keyboard: Tyros 5
Image
lesh
Active Poster
 
Posts: 194
Joined: 02 Mar 2014 12:07
Location: Newbridge, Gwent

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 23 Jul 2019 15:06

Earlier on in this Topic I had played a Scottish Medley:
A short interlude now. Take your partners for some Scottish Country Dancing. Piano Accordion, & Piano .. no Bagpipes. The Mason's Apron / Scotland The Brave / Cock o' the North.


I have had the below from Ron. Some sheet music for a Bagpipe to play The Mason's Apron, showing all those 'Grace' notes!

Image

Hugh
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Ron » 26 Jul 2019 09:55

The trills are called Grace notes and go by the names of Taorluath, Lemluath, the Grip and the Pinkie Birl. The Tyros is good at what it does , but will never be able to fully copy the true sound of the Highland Bagpipes.

Regards,

Ron
Twin setup: Tyros 3 and Yamaha Piaggero NP-11
Fretless Bass, Fender Bass amp: BXR300C, Trace Elliot Commando 100W

Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2019 May (Joint Winner)
2022 September (Joint Winner)
User avatar
Ron
Regular Member
 
Posts: 688
Joined: 01 Jan 2013 16:11
Location: East Lothian, Scotland, UK

Re: Bagpipes

Postby Hugh-AR » 02 Aug 2019 13:15

Another short interlude of Scottish music, mainly Piano Accordion this time.

Dark Island .. played by Den (dentyr).
Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab.
https://app.box.com/s/6vr6y6riebl9dmu4fzjaeyhvekvzluic
It's all about the music ♫ ♪ ♫ Organ: Yamaha AR80 & Keyboard: Tyros 4
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2021 May (Joint Winner); July; September
2022 July; August
2023 April; June; September
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK


Return to Playing Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests