Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo?

Image
Comments about individual Voices, please post in here.

Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo?

Postby Hugh-AR » 29 May 2018 13:27

I have just noticed something, which I find quite amazing! When you are sitting at a real Piano or a Vibraphone and playing it, the sound comes from between one side of the instrument and the other, depending on where in front of you the note is struck. Unlike eg. a Trumpet, a Trombone or a Clarinet, (and even a Guitar), where all the sound comes from one place.

On my AR, I can 'Pan' a Piano or Vibraphone so it appears to come from 'left of stage or right of stage', but when I play individual notes they all originate from the same place (like the Trumpet or Trombone would).

But listen to this Vibraphone being played. The notes appear to come from somewhere between right and left depending on whether it is a higher note (to the right) or a lower note (to the left). I think you would have to wear headphones to notice this, and the reason why I picked it up is because I had my headphones on with the left and right channels the wrong way round and couldn't understand why lower notes were coming from the right, and higher notes from the left! Put my headphones round the other way and it sounded perfect! This has been played on a Tyros 4, so presumably both a Tyros 5 and Genos would do this.

Click this LINK to listen to what I am on about. Wear headphones .. you'll have to listen very carefully! I have repeated the extract so you get a second listen to it.

Maybe do a right-click on this and open it up in a New Tab
Stereo separation when playing a Vibraphone

Now, I would like to know if any other keyboards or organs do this? I know that a Bohm does when playing Church Organ music, with pipes sounding from the left and right of centre when notes are played, making a very authentic and 'full' sound.

Hugh
It's all about the music. Yamaha AR 80 Player.
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2018 August (Joint Winner); October (Joint Winner); November (Joint Winner); December (Joint Winner)
2019 March (Joint Winner); May (Joint Winner); June (Joint Winner); October Winner
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 3729
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo

Postby dragon » 29 May 2018 14:38

Hugh. My computer speakers are about 4' apart and I often get a marked stereo effect from them while listening to music. This sample of yours has no effect from the speakers but a well defined one using headphones. .. Fred
Roland BK-7m. Tyros4 LOWREY RIALTO
Image
User avatar
dragon
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 2310
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 10:38
Location: Nottingham

Re: Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo

Postby Brian007 » 29 May 2018 16:55

Hi Hugh,

Just listened to it through Ear puds and the higher notes favor the right channel and the lower the left channel ?
interesting , I can set an effect called auto pan on my Korg which I imagine would do the same thing, Haven't tried it but I will
just to see, Have a look and see what effects if any you have set for that voice


Brian007
Image Image Image
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2018 September (Joint Winner); October (Joint Winner); November (Joint Winner)
User avatar
Brian007
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 4207
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 10:58
Location: chester-le-street. Co. Durham

Re: Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo

Postby andyg » 30 May 2018 18:32

Depends on how the sounds are sampled and on how the manufacturer wants to use them.

On a digital piano or on a good keyboard, the piano pans from left to right as you go from bass to treble, just as it should - IF you were sitting at it. Electric pianos will do the same, of course. They use stereo sampling for these sounds. Things like ensembles of choirs, strings and brass etc should in theory all be sampled in stereo. Most times they are, and you hear the sound as if you were standing in front of the ensemble, where the mikes were placed.

But things like vibes are usually sampled in mono, so you don't get that panning effect. Solo instruments, well, they are going to be in mono as well. You might find some stereo samples, but I can't think of a real reason why you'd need a stereo trumpet, for example.

But do consider this. That concert grand piano panning from left to right is correct for the player, but let's consider the listener. They, unless they're sitting behind the player, won't hear that. And if you were standing at the pointy end of the concert grand, the panning you'd hear would be reversed!.

All the big 'virtual pianos', the ones with gigagbytes of samples rather than the megabytes we find in keyboards, organs and even the best digital pianos, will have a 'perspective' option - player or audience. If I'm playing live, I'm not going to worry about the piano being panned wrongly for the listener. But if I'm recording something, then I have options. If it's a solo piano piece I can leave the panning as it is. Or I can take the time to narrow or dispense with the stereo spread of the piano and then position it on my virtual stage as I wish. Or I can change the perspective by simply clicking on the button if I'm using a virtual grand piano.

So if our vibes player is standing centre stage, facing the audience, there's a case for having that stereo spread, albeit a narrow one. If he's to one side, with the vibes at an angle, then mono is better.

Think about this when playing drums, too. The kits are all stereo but if you pan hard left and right, you can effectively have a drum kit that's 10 feet across! Nothing you can do live, unless the drums have their own stereo output, but for recording (where I might well record the drums on their own tracks first) I'd narrow the spread and then place the drummer where he would really be.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

Image .. Image
Visit My Website: http://www.andrew-gilbert.com/
User avatar
andyg
Super Poster
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 02 Sep 2012 20:18
Location: Newhaven, UK

Re: Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo

Postby Hugh-AR » 30 May 2018 22:07

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your very comprehensive reply. One or two things there I hadn't thought about, particularly:
And if you were standing at the pointy end of the concert grand, the panning you'd hear would be reversed!

Good point! Would have to turn my headphones round the other way again to get that effect!

We once had one of the sound engineers from the BBC staying in our hotel, and he was saying that the BBC couldn't afford to make the 'sound' follow the cameras when doing productions. So you may start with a person speaking on the right, but then they would move him to the left of screen .. but the sound would still be coming from the right. And that would do his head in, as he was always listening to where the sound should be coming from. So much for Nicam Stereo, he would say. With a film production, on the other hand, they could afford to do the sound properly, so watching a block-buster in a Cinema panned out OK (if you'll pardon the expression!).

Point taken with the drums too. If the drum kit were spread ten feet across the drummer would have a job playing them!

As far as the vibraphone is concerned, if the player was on stage in front of you and facing you, then the 'pan' would would be with the high notes to the left and the low notes to the right. Which is how I had heard it in the first place, with my headphones on the wrong way round. Let's just say that I enjoyed having a bit of stereo separation from the Vibraphone, whichever way round it was.

Another thought. I have been talking to DonW, who is a Church organist, and before he was retired he used to manufacture organ pipes and repair organs all over the country. As far as low notes to the left is concerned, he said that more often than not the shorter pipes (higher notes) were at the front, and the longer pipes (lower notes) were set right behind them. You wouldn't then get stereo separation between the high and low notes as they would all be coming from somewhere in the middle.

Hugh
It's all about the music. Yamaha AR 80 Player.
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2018 August (Joint Winner); October (Joint Winner); November (Joint Winner); December (Joint Winner)
2019 March (Joint Winner); May (Joint Winner); June (Joint Winner); October Winner
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 3729
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK

Re: Are your notes played on a Vibraphone or Piano in Stereo

Postby Hugh-AR » 12 Jan 2020 17:38

I have just come across this example of a piano that does sound as if you are sitting playing a real piano (as far as where the sound is coming from is concerned). This is Charles Hughes (ChuckH) playing She (Aznavour) on his Ringway RS1000e organ.

This is what I had said about it (you can listen to the piece by clicking on the LINK below):
One thing I am particularly impressed with is that piano. I have been listening with headphones on and your Ringway organ has stereo separation on that piano. Middle notes are coming from the centre, and higher notes are coming from the right .. so the piano sounds the way it would if you were sitting at a real piano and playing it. I have been asking if there are any keyboards or electronic pianos that do this (ie. the sound comes from left and right like a real piano) and so far I think your Ringway is the only instrument I have come across that does this. It certainly doesn't on my AR. I can pan my piano either to the left, or centre, or right .. but then all the notes come from left, or centre, or right.

She (a Charles Aznavour song)

Do a right-click to open this up in a New Tab
https://app.box.com/s/73aujiuv2zqhqy5qlvjgdlxs98fxw54c
It's all about the music. Yamaha AR 80 Player.
Image .. Image
Challenge Winner
2018 August (Joint Winner); October (Joint Winner); November (Joint Winner); December (Joint Winner)
2019 March (Joint Winner); May (Joint Winner); June (Joint Winner); October Winner
User avatar
Hugh-AR
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 3729
Joined: 07 Feb 2015 14:34
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK


Return to Voices

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest