Live Music

[papadeedee]

Greetings to all fellow music fans,

I was just wondering if anyone has been to any concerts that stand out in their memory recently or in the past.

I have been to some great concerts, some many years ago and some more recent. Over the years, I have acquired a very varied taste in music.
To illustrate this, the last two concerts I have attended couldn't be more different.

My most recent one was the Nutcracker Ballet and the one before that was Dweesil Zappa playing his dad's music.

With regards to the Ballet, everything stood out, the costumes, the set, the orchestra and of course some fantastic dancing. The music was delightful.

On the other hand, I don't think you could describe Zappa's music as delightful but the band were top class. I don't think I could single anyone out in particular whether it was Dweesil's wizardry on the guitar or the girl's fantastic sax playing. I did find it interesting that although they had the most up to date keyboards, they still opted to use a Fender Rhodes electric piano. What stood out most about this concert was the way the band blended so well together whilst they were also afforded the oportunity to demonstrate their individual mastery of their respective instruments.

What memories have you ? Do tell.

Brian D

[JohnT]

Hi Brian My neighbour who is a ballet teacher was unable to attend the Ballet at the theatre royal Newcastle last year. I was offered the tickets and somewhat reluctantly I went with my wife. I am glad I did both the music and the performers where excellent. A well worth visit. She often puts on shows and the performers young children are a treat to watch along with the taped music. John

[JohnT]

Hi Brian Forgot to mention it was also the Nutcracker. John

[papadeedee]

Hi John,
The ballet is a lovely experience, I think everyone should go to at least one. I have only been to a couple in my life but glad I did. So far I've only ever been to one opera but again, it was such a spectacle that it was a vey enjoyable experience. I don't want to give the impression that I'm highbrow, I enjoy most live entertainment. covering most genres.
Brian D

[SysExJohn]

Yep!

Last Saturday we went (wife and I) to the local (for me) concert in St. Matthew church, Northampton of the Bach B minor Mass.
The primary reason (for me) was that the orchestra was using original 18th Century instruments or copies or them.
e.g violins have gut strings, not metal. Wooden flutes, etc.
They were also tuned to a more authentic tuning with A = 415 (I believe).
And they used a temperament closer to that used in baroque times, I understand (1/6th comma mean tone maybe).

It was a stunning performance, with the soprano and counter tenor (singing the alto) being outstanding.
My only criticism would be the over large choir made them a bit cumbersome.

Some years back I attended a concert of the same piece in Bonn in Germany.
Simply awful. It was like attending a funeral, so slowly was the work taken. A real dirge!
We slipped out at the interval and sought some German beer to drown our sorrows.

Regards,
John.
Still smiling from Saturday's performance.

[papadeedee]

Hi (SysEx) John,
I have heard of concerts using original instruments but never been to one. I actually don't Know the Bach B Minor Mass but since your post, I have listened to snippets on You Tube and it sounds like a great piece of music. The last one I attended of that type was Mozart's Requiem and it was outstanding.
Brian D

[Mike Bracchi]

Wotcha guys,

During the late 70's and early 80's I used go to many 'open air' summer concerts, my favourite venue was Kenwood House in North London.

I would regularly go when Christopher Hogwood and the AAM were performing - always superb concerts - they were enjoyed whilst drinking ice cold gin & tonics and a picnic by the lake

Mr Hogwood + The Academy of Ancient Music + Kenwood House = musical heaven

Sadly these days, it's a 'mug of tea' in front of the telly if I want to go to a concert

Mike

[SysExJohn]

Wotcher Brian and Mike,

(you really can drop the SysEx, it's something I got lumbered with many, many moons ago!)
It was my first first hand experience of baroque instruments. Horns without keys but with 'crooks' to tune them to different keys, trumpets that look more like a trombone but without a slide. Wonderful sound.

Brian,my two favourite parts from the Mass are the 'qui sedes' from the first part and almost at the very end, the 'agnus Dei'.
Susanne, my wife, sings them both, rather well I have to say. But here they were sung by a counter tenor with a really amazing voice.

Ah! Christopher Hogwood and the Academy. Simply wonderful, but only heard by me in recordings.

The Northampton Bach Choir has the Mozart Great Mass coming up in late June.
Not with the same orchestra though.

I think we'll be going to that too.
Regards,
John.

[papadeedee]

Hi John and Mike,
I wouldn't have included the sysex title but it was to distinguish you from John T who had also posted on the forum.
I am at present listening to Handel's Messiah performed by Christopher Hogwood Academy of Ancient Music as I write this post.
My wife and I used to be regulars at Glasgow Concert Hall mainly for performances by The Scottish National Orchestra.
I've been to many different types, another memorable concert I was at a few years ago was to hear Alain toussaint, New Orleans finest. Another New orleans legend I saw was Dr John. I think as we age, we develop a more diverse palate.
Brian D

[SysExJohn]

A more diverse palate? Maybe!

My parents told me that I started enjoying Bach when I was about ten.
I imagine that's not entirely normal! Oh, well.

They had a recording on a ten inch LP of two of the Brandenburg Concertos which I'd play and play, apparently.
That and the Rachmaninov second and the Grieg A minor piano concerto.
Tchaikovsky too I'm led to believe.
Maybe it was early exposure to classical music, which I was unaware I was supposed to dislike until I was older.
That's why I suppose I spend most of my free time sequencing Bach cantatas I imagine.
I find I don't listen to much popular music at all these days, not that I don't enjoy it when I do.
I have a huge collection of CDs of songs from the 50s and 60s.

Now I take pleasure from messing around with tunings and temperaments which again I believe is not exactly 'normal'.
I think I must have been dropped on my head when I was small.

[papadeedee]

Hi John,
For classical music, it's Mozart for me. I know it is subjective but to me there is Mozart and then all the rest.
I love Cole porter's music, I think his songs and lyrics are tops and I love Ella Fitzgerald but I haven't seen any of them at a live performance including Wolfgang. sob sob.
Brian D

[SysExJohn]

Ah! Yes, WAM.

You've forced me to admit that I too have a great love of young Wolfgang.

Some years ago, whilst on a trip to Sydney to deliver some training, I was lucky enough to discover that there was a performance of the Magic Flute at the Opera House, and bought a good ticket at an amazingly low price.
So captivated was I with the opera that, upon exit, I couldn't remember the name or address of the hotel for a taxi back.
Fortunately I did remember my walk of the previous day and floated back on a cloud of music.

But for me, there is no life without Johann.
A few years ago, whilst living near Bonn, I did a Bach pilgrimage visiting Eisenach, Weimar, Arnstadt and Leipzig.
I really loved Thuringia. A beautiful, inspirational part of the world.

Cole Porter and Ella, snap!
I could add Hoagy Carmichael and Nat King Cole who was a superb jazz pianist first.

Happy memories.
Kind regards,
John.

[papadeedee]

Hi John,
You seem to be far travelled in your pursuit of musical performance.

I have looked at the Bach works known as The 48. I don't remember which one from there but it was in Gb and I had my computer transpose it to C and learned to play it. I am not so afraid of Gb these days but it is not the easiest of keys to play in. I did learn the Toccata and Fugue in d minor a number of years ago. Another one which I enjoy playing is Prelude in C major, it is not too difficult to read but I really enjoy experimenting with the dynamics in that one. It is the one used to accompany Ave Maria.
I don't play much classical music because I am not a great reader and don't want to invest the time and effort it takes to play them competently.

I am not too familiar with Hoagy Carmichael but I will have a listen to some of his music on You Tube. I know Nat King Coal is an excellent pianist, I like the songs he plays but for some reason I can't stand his voice.

There was an era where there were some outstanding female singers. I enjoy listening to, Ella, Sarah vaughan, Julie London and Dinah washington to name but a few.

As for Mozart, I think the final symphony no 41 is actually PERFECT.

regards,
Brian D

[SysExJohn]

Hi Brian,

Far travelled? Perhaps.
There was a period in my life of about 18 months where I had a contract with InMarSat (a satellite launching company which was recently in the news over its tracking of flight MH370). I wrote a couple of courses for them about their latest (at the time) technology and then delivered it to many telcos (e.g. BT) around the world. I'd just finished a week in Washington before the week in Sydney.

Sometimes I'd arrive a day or two early in order to have a bit of a rest from the 4 days, 7 hours per day lecturing. It was an extremely exhausting schedule. When I did arrive early I'd look for a concert. No chance in places like Dakar, and not enough time in Tokyo or Moscow. Nothing to be had in Jo'berg.

But I just couldn't miss the opportunity in Sydney, now could I?
Especially Die Zauberflöte ... and at a bargain price.

Bach? Where to begin. Yes, I suppose for the keyboard, the 24 are often used as teaching materials, covering every key signature.
It is now considered possible by a few that Anna Magdalena Bach (his 2nd wife) may have written the C major prelude.
There is no existing copy in his handwriting, but two in hers.
The Toccata and Fugue which some now think was not actually written by him (academic research).

The six Brandenburg Concertos are worth a listen, as is his wonderful Concerto for two violins.
The St John and the St Matthew Passions are wonderful as are various arias from his more than 200 cantatas.
Susanne sings several written for soprano and alto.
The Italian Concerto and the Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue, played on the harpsichord.
The oboe and oboe d'amore concertos ... when one has more than a thousand works to choose from it becomes difficult.
But, of course, it all depends upon one's preferences.

What you should know is that Bach never possessed a piano!
It wasn't invented until late in his life and he severely criticised the early ones.
Although he became an agent in his last couple of years for the maker, I forget his name now, he didn't own one.
All his keyboard music was composed for harpsichord or clavichord, or for the organ.
The harpsichord has no dynamics except for chords, so the 24 should, in theory, be played using many tempo changes to give them variety. And Bach didn't use the Equal Temperament tuning that we use today. That didn't come into general use (actually tuned ET) until the 20th century. It's all fascinating stuff ... if you're a geek like wot I am.

I could ramble on for hours on this stuff, and often do to anyone who'll listen, boring them rigid.

If you want a challenge, try the Sinfonia to cantata no 29. You'll find the music at the IMSLP.
You'll find a good few YouTube videos posted.

Strange, I love Nat's voice.
Hoagy Carmichael composed Stardust, Georgia on My Mind, The Nearness of You, three for which he is probably most well known.
He was nowhere near as prolific as Porter or Gershwin being again mainly a pianist.
He appears in several early monochrome films including one as a piano player in an early Bogart and Bacall movie.

The Mozart oboe concerto is good (I used to be able to play bits of it).
And I adore many of his operas. Again, Susanne sings some arias from a few.

We try to get to the Proms every year if we can.

I used to listen to popular music much of the time with a little classical thrown in.
Now it's very much the other way round.

Good to chat.
Kind regards,
John.

Added later:
Here's a rendering of the Sinfonia from my laptop.
https://app.box.com/s/pzzug777hm5uidil3quxd91vfo5edcpa

[papadeedee]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info, I have listened to The Brandenburg Concertos many times. I am not at all sure but I think the one I particularly like is in D Major.

I notice that you refer to "the 24" but I'm sure I have Vol 1 and vol 2 on my hard drive somewhere making 48. I've included a few notes from Wikipedia below.

The Well-Tempered Clavier, is a collection of solo keyboard music composed by Johann Sebastian Bach. He gave the title to a book of preludes and fugues in all 24 major and minor keys, dated 1722, composed "for the profit and use of musical youth desirous of learning, and especially for the pastime of those already skilled in this study". Bach later compiled a second book of the same kind, dated 1742, with the title Twenty-four Preludes and Fugues. The two works are now considered to make up a single work, The Well-Tempered Clavier, or "the 48", and are referred to as The Well-Tempered Clavier Book I and The Well-Tempered Clavier Book II, respectively.[2] This collection is generally regarded as being among the most influential works in the history of Western classical music.

I read a while ago although you will know better than me if it is accurate that Bach wrote the twenty four because of improvements to the tuning of the instrument referred to as the well tempered clavier which I took to be an improved type of piano.

Now that you mention it, I did know that Hoagy Carmichael wrote Georgia.

There were so many great players in days gone past. Now you can get rich banging out three chords.

I have been to some of the places you mention when I was a sea going engineer and I used to live in South Africa. I don't travel much these days, can't afford to but I do have nice memories.

Do you like the big band era? I remember when I was in my early twenties, I went to see Stan Kenton. I was amazed at the behaviour of the middle aged to elderly people in the audience, they were really letting loose. Loads of them brought trumpets with them. It was hilarious!

Regards,
Brian D

[Rev Tony Newnham]

Hi

Bach's title is "The Well Tempered Clavier" - not "Equal Tempered" - although there is a lotof academic speculation as to just what tuning temperament he had in mind! I sometimes play one a day of these - basically sight reading - just to keep my hand in on some of the more remote keys (and only when no-one is listening!). Given the number of accidentals that he employs in some of the remoter keys, I'd guess they were definitely intended for an equal temperament tuning.

Ilisten to loads of different musical styles, from classical (and especially classical organ music)through to some popular stuff. I draw the line at Grand Opera & Classical song with words that you can't hear because of so-called "trained" singers. I also avoid Punk & its derivatives - just sheer noise and all too often,a lack of technique.

Currently, I'm getting into Prog - via a long-standing admiration of Rick Wakeman's solo work - and also,the various recordings by Sky (remember them?) are being re-issued. I've got a couple waiting to go in the player when I get a chance.

Enough of my rambling! I've got to try & do the last bits of sorting & unpacking this weekend (now I've retired I don;t have any services now - led a service last Sunday, and played for the Good Friday service last night, and that's it, although we will of course be in church Sunday morning). It's way past time I got mymusic room sorted out - the there's the garage & shed - and my "den".

Every Blessing

Tony

[SysExJohn]

Hi Tony,

We were both 'composing' at the same time it seems.

Absolutely, NOT equal temperament, Tony. But that was what was thought originally.
Bach knew of equal temperament and disliked it we have discovered from existing documents from the time.
It is very, very difficult to tune ET by ear accurately. We know Bach could tune a harpsichord in ten to fifteen minutes.
The Germans at the time had a special name for ET, "Gleich schwebenden Temperature", 'equally floating temperament', translated literally.

There has been a lot of speculation recently in the academic community, whether Bach 'hid' his temperament in the squiggle (Snörkel) at the top of the title page of the original Das Wohltemperirte Clavier. This is Bach's hand writing, written with a quill pen of course.



"The Well-Tempered Clavier
or
Preludes and
Fugues through all the tones and semitones
including those with a major third or Ut Re Mi
as well as those with a minor third or Re
Mi Fa. For the profit and use of
musical youth desirous of learning
and especially for the pastime
of those already skilled in
this study composed and prepared by
Johann Sebastian Bach
at present
Capellmeister to
His Serene
Highness
the Prince
of Anhalt-Cothen,
and director
of His
Chamber Music.
Anno
1722"

If you look you'll see that the squiggle is most uneven. Hardly something one would put at the top of a piece of music that one would put forward as one's CV for an important job, let alone by Bach who was a master of the quill pen. If you think otherwise, try to complete the loop at the foot of the page with the flourish he does. Exactly five loops. We tune in fifths. Another hidden clue.

Bach's predecessor at the job had written a treatise on how to tune so that one could compose in "most" keys.

Why, one might ask, are there precisely enough loops to define the circle of fifths? Why are they not all the same?
It's a graphical description of how to tune each fifth as one progresses from F to C to G to D etc.
A form of one sixth comma mean tone.

Going from right to left (it was created upside down, if you don't believe it, try to recreate it yourself), the 'C' gives us a clue that the first multiple loop is for F to C tuning. Remember Bach had no tuning fork. So an F from a recorder (Blockflöte) perhaps. Then tune a pure fifth to C, then back it off a little, a double squiggle, and so on.

Fascinating stuff ... at least it is to me ... ever the geek!

Kind regards,
John.

[papadeedee]

Hello Tony,

Congratulations on your retirement, if you are allowed to that is. If it is anything like the church up here in Scotland, I don't think you will have too long to wait before you're called back to cover for a church requiring a new minister or to cover for a sick one. (Sorry to put a damper on it)

I mentioned on an earlier post that I had my computer transpose one of Bachs pieces from Gb/F# to C because I didn't fancy the original key. I made a mistake, now that I think about it, the piece I transposed was in C# major. I am not so afraid of these keys now but I like rattling through tunes on the organ and piano therefore I don't want to invest the time to practice the technical stuff like Bachs music to get them up to a decent level. Not to say I don't like them of course.

I have listened to Rick Wakeman, I do remember the "Strawbs" and "Yes" and "Journey to the Centre of the Earth" but although it's all good,I haven't really paid that much attention to him. I used to like Keith Emerson and although technically brilliant, I now find a lot of his stuff boring. I'm not sure if Brian Auger falls into that category but I love his playing.
Regards,
Brian D

[papadeedee]

HI John,
I can see how passionate you are about Bach. I am glad Tony came in because the information is now going way over my head, you really seem to know your stuff.
Keep it coming, it is fascinating,
The most I have ever got involved in Mozart's history is that I have read a few of his letters and found them pretty funny.
Regards,
Brian

[JohnT]

Hi Yes Brian a lot way above me but a good read and interesting. Tony hope you enjoy your retirement and if it applies joined the SKI club. All the best. John

[SysExJohn]

Hi Tony, Brian and John,

Well, it's normal.
I suppose a career devoted to programming in machine code and assembler, then on to data communications protocol analysis and reprogramming has really warped my mind. I have to admit that not many people understood me in the computer industry either.
I suppose I've become used to it somehow.

I started my career in computers operating one of these when I was just 19.
It's the operators console. No QWERTY keyboard to be seen.



It works in binary and octal.
After working on that 8 hours a day for a couple of years the mind is incapable of ordinary English!
That's an ICT engineer running some tests using the 'scope.
It's given me a fascination to explore almost everything in minute detail.

Yes Brian, Mozart and his 'crapology' is highly amusing, not what one would expect at all from him.
One somehow would expect him to be way above that sort of thing.
An angel with feet of lead. He WAS only human after all.
Try the Mozart clarinet concerto, it's wonderful.

Passionate about Bach? Yes, I suppose it's that alright.
I have a CD cabinet devoted only to the master.

However, I listen as I type to my latest acquisition.
The complete CD set of The Beatles remastered.
Taking me back to '62/'63. I returned to the UK from Uganda on the 23rd of January '63, after having holidayed in Mombasa where average daytime temperatures were 100 F in the shade, to the coldest night of the twentieth century.

We had no heating because everything in the house we were renting had frozen.
We huddled around a coal fire in one room of the house.
Our car, which we'd imported, had no heater.
I've never been so cold in my life and hope to never again.

I think I'll write a little article on tuning for the music theory section.

Kind regards,
John.

[papadeedee]

hi John,

I have a basic understanding of binary but my knowledge of octal ? Something to do with 8 and that's it. (The clue is in the name)

I think the 2nd movement adagio could quite possibly be the most beautiful piece of music I have ever heard. I have been to live performances of the clarinet concerto on a couple of occasions. (Scottish National Orchestra) Although, having said that there are some beautiful soprano arias. I most certainly am not clued up on them but I sometimes just type in "beautiful arias" and see what You Tube comes up with. I like the American, Barbara Bonney.

It used to get very hot up in Zululand where I lived for a few years and I remember coming back to the UK, It took ages to reacclimatise and funnily enough, I remember being frozen in my car when The heater was temporarily by-passed, I can't remember why it was though.

Brian D

[SysExJohn]

Hi Brian,

Octal is the maximum number of combinations using just three binary digits.
000, 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111. nought to seven.
Early computers had 6 bit characters rather than eight bit bytes.
With eight bit bytes we halve them for a 'nybble' then we use hexadecimal to count to 16.
It continues 1000, 1001, and so on.

Now although I love the 2nd movement of the Mozart clarinet concerto, I'd say the middle movement from Bach's Concerto for two violins in D minor beats it into a cocked hat! And the supreme version of that is by the maestro Arthur Grumiaux and Herman Krebbers.
The interweaving of the two violins, sometimes repeating the other, sometimes going in a new direction, is just exquisite.

But then what about the oboe concerto by Domenico Cimarosa? and the Grieg piano concerto in A minor .. and ... and ...

Do you know the soprano aria from Mozart's Cosi fan tutte, Una Donna a quindici anni?
A lovely piece in waltz tempo, very light and cheeky.
Or the Ave Maria from Otello by Verdi sung by Desdemona just before Othello strangles her to death, very moving.

I'll send you a PM in a little while with a few to listen to.

I visited Capetown and Durban on boat journeys in the fifties and Jo'berg more recently on a lecture tour.
What I saw I loved, but then I have the smell of Africa in my blood.

Regards,
John.

[KRUG]

My youngest son studied the trumpet at the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama. His specialism was the natural trumpet (before valves) and we attended a concert in Edinburgh when he played a programme of Bach with The English Concert. Wonderful sounds from those instruments.

I have attended a few notable orchestral concerts but seeing Pentangle in the late 60's was memorable and the best organ based concert was Chiho Sunamoto and her husband John Smith. There was a real spark between the two of them which raised brilliant music to brilliant entertainment.

Keith

[Rev Tony Newnham]

Thanks for the retirement wishes.

Skiing is a non-starter - I've had to retire early because of health issues, the main one being severe arthritis. Not good.

We moved here last August, and I'm involved playing a church roughly every other week, and we've taken 3 services so far (and I've just agreed to a fourth), plus taken a service & played a couple of times at another church. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll have my music room usable.

Happy Easter

Every Blessing

Tony

[papadeedee]

Hi John,
I tried to listen to the file you sent but when I clicked on it, it says file not found.

Hi Tony,
Sounds like you are keeping busy.

Hi Keith,
I remember Pentangle and liked them although for some reason I never had any of their albums. Of course, Bert Jansch is an extremely highly rated guitarist. I saw Gordon Giltrap several years back, he is kind of like the same ilk as Bert Jansch. I remember his right hand was a blur .
Cheers.
Brian D

[Mike Bracchi]

Wotcha guys,

Well, this has turned out to be a most interesting and educational topic

So I thought combining a little bit of Sibelius with a more modern approach may go down well at this point

The Nice (Keith Emerson) - Karelia Suite 1969 using Hammond L100 with Leslie cabinets.

The video shows Emerson throwing his L100 about and using the on/off switch to create the great rock effects that he has become known for - Emerson had previously learnt about these 'tricks' some years earlier from the legendary organist Don Shinn who played organ with The Soul Agents.

Keith Emerson acknowledges that Don Shinn was a pioneer within the progressive rock movement during the late 60's and that he, Shinn, had a major influence on Emerson's style of playing.


Enjoy ....



Mike

[JohnT]

Hi Tony. The ski club referred to is Spending the Kids Inheritance. Hope you are well John

[SysExJohn]

Oh dear,

Poor Sibelius, rotating in his grave.

Put a bit more about tuning in the music theory section, Mike.

I'll look into why you can't get that file a bit later, Brian.
Currently very busy cooking a late lunch.

Regards,
John

[papadeedee]

Hi Mike
I remember that track well, after hearing it I rushed out and bought the sheet music but just about managed the main theme. I used to like Keith Emerson but have become very bored with the sound, especially ELP, I hate them.
I remember The Nice when they were PP Arnolds backing band. I saw her just a few years back, she was a guest on the Manfred's live show. I went to a few Manfred's concerts they always had brilliant guests performing and I do like Paul Jones. Back to PP Arnold, she was born 1946, five years older than me but I tell you, she is stunning.
Guests who appeared with the Manfreds include : Maggie Bell, Chris Farlow, Paul Young , Alan Price, Colin Blunstone.
I don't know if they still do their anual tours, maybe I'll look into it.
I haven't heard of Don Shinn but I will check him out presently.
Brian D

[Rev Tony Newnham]

Hi John

2 of our 4 kids are better off than we are! And we've neverreally had a chance to build up much to leave them (except maybe few bills!)

Every Blessing

Tony

[Westgarth]

SKI Club! Brilliant

This is going in the will.